Adjusting Driver Loft

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By John B

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  • 25 Replies
  1. John B

    John B
    North Carolina

    I have a 12* TSR1 and want to use the adapter to dial it down by 0.75*. In doing so, will this open the face or is it neutral. A while back I had a png driver and I recall when you increased the lie you also closed the face and decreasing the lie opened the face. Wondering if this is the case for a Titleist as well.

  2. Chuck Zirkle

    Chuck Zirkle
    Mt Pleasant, SC via Rocky Top Tennessee

    Military
    Do you have the driver adjustment chart? It will give you that information. Just in case, I have attached it for you. Recommded copying it for future use. As you can see it will close the face causing a draw.
    Post Image
  3. Don O

    Don O
    Madison, WI

    The A1 setting (for RH) is slightly open. Adjusting the 12 degree to 11.25 (D1) will open the face another 0.5 degrees. Conversely, going to 12.75 degrees (D4) will close the face 0.5 degrees, making the face slightly closed.
    Moving to B1 or B2 doesn’t change the loft and I think that doesn’t change the open/close face.
  4. J22abe

    J22abe
    Texas

    Don O said:

    The A1 setting (for RH) is slightly open. Adjusting the 12 degree to 11.25 (D1) will open the face another 0.5 degrees. Conversely, going to 12.75 degrees (D4) will close the face 0.5 degrees, making the face slightly closed.
    Moving to B1 or B2 doesn’t change the loft and I think that doesn’t change the open/close face.

    This is the correct answer.
  5. John B

    John B
    North Carolina

    Since I am left-handed, I have a left handed chart. Copied to my phone for easy reference. If you move up and down the loft line (vertical axis) but stay in the same column for Lie (horizontal axis) the lie would stay the same. So for your RH chart, say you move from A1 to D1, you would decrease the loft on a 12* driver to 11.25, but would this open the face at all? It would on a png 410 I played a few years back. Thanks.
  6. Don O

    Don O
    Madison, WI

    Left hand and right hand works the same way, just the setting numbers are different. Vertical changes loft, horizontal changes lie.

    png used to use LH and RH hosels, so the shafts were not interchangeable. Only the settings differ with Titleist. I am also LH. Since Chuck posted a RH chart, I framed my answer that way. A 12 degree can be adjusted on the vertical from 11.25 to 13.5 degrees, LH or RH.
  7. Dale V

    Dale V
    Surprise AZ

    Opening the face is how it adds loft. Closing the face is delofting the club.
  8. John B

    John B
    North Carolina

    Dale V said:

    Opening the face is how it adds loft. Closing the face is delofting the club.

    That is interesting. I thought it was the opposite. I believe I got that from a png fitter several years ago that told me to add loft to close the face some what.
  9. Dale V

    Dale V
    Surprise AZ

    Think of it this way, if you take your 56 degree wedge and open the face to expose the bounce, the loft on the face is now at 60+ degrees. Chips have more spin but they come off higher. Same goes for driver/fairway adapter settings.
  10. John B

    John B
    North Carolina

    Dale V said:

    Think of it this way, if you take your 56 degree wedge and open the face to expose the bounce, the loft on the face is now at 60+ degrees. Chips have more spin but they come off higher. Same goes for driver/fairway adapter settings.

    That makes sense. Here is another question. If you look at the chart, it shows making the club more upright adds more draw. Moving from A1 to A2 for example on the RH chart. Why would this be the case? I have had several driver fittings in the last 10+ years and always came away with the same recommendation for standard lie so that is where I leave it. My typical miss lately has been a push so I was wondering if this adjustment (club more upright) would be useful? Thanks.
  11. Dale V

    Dale V
    Surprise AZ

    Again, think about irons. When the toe is in the air the face is pointing left (for right handed golfers). That’s why you aim right when the ball is way above your feet on an uneven lie. When a player tends to pull shots during a fitting, fitters often try a 2 degree flat lie to straighten it out. Setting the driver more upright is aiming the face more shut. This might help your push and worth trying the adjustment. My miss is an over the top cut fade so adjusting the club just means I get a straight pull left. I use the surefit adjustment but also must work on eliminating the swing fault. Best wishes and hoping you get it dialed in.
  12. Chuck Zirkle

    Chuck Zirkle
    Mt Pleasant, SC via Rocky Top Tennessee

    Military

    Dale V said:

    Again, think about irons. When the toe is in the air the face is pointing left (for right handed golfers). That’s why you aim right when the ball is way above your feet on an uneven lie. When a player tends to pull shots during a fitting, fitters often try a 2 degree flat lie to straighten it out. Setting the driver more upright is aiming the face more shut. This might help your push and worth trying the adjustment. My miss is an over the top cut fade so adjusting the club just means I get a straight pull left. I use the surefit adjustment but also must work on eliminating the swing fault. Best wishes and hoping you get it dialed in.

    Brain overload. Know you understand .
  13. Don O

    Don O
    Madison, WI

    Good news, you can easily try to see if it makes a difference. And go back just as easily.

    It will take more than 5-10 shots on a range to tell. The settings are only for fine tuning. If it is a new problem or at least different, more likely the archer needs an adjustment more than the arrow.
  14. John B

    John B
    North Carolina

    Don O said:

    Good news, you can easily try to see if it makes a difference. And go back just as easily.

    It will take more than 5-10 shots on a range to tell. The settings are only for fine tuning. If it is a new problem or at least different, more likely the archer needs an adjustment more than the arrow.

    True dat. The archer needs all the help he can get.
  15. SIMON G

    SIMON G

    I agree with you. When you increase loft it has the effect of closing the face because of the way the surefit device is set up. It makes the face turn slightly further left for each time you increase the loft. The A1 setting is very slightly open, D1 more open, D4 slightly closed and A4 more closed. I discovered this by accident - I found out I I got a better ball flight with the extra loft A4 offered but every shot I hit was a slight pull hook instead of my customary fade. If I tried D1 I'd probably get a slice etc.
    You are definitely correct even though someone's saying otherwise.
  16. J22abe

    J22abe
    Texas

    Dale is talking about physically opening your driver face... That will add loft. What the OP is asking is changing the driver settings and changing settings of the club not just rotating the shaft in your hands, when you deloft the club it sits more open, when you increase loft, it sits more closed. You also lose bounce when delofting, and increase bounce when increasing loft.

    I have a tendency to hook the ball, so I been playing a 10° Driver set to C1, and it sits very open, and has practically removed the low spind duck hook, but unfortunately not the hook! Haha.
  17. Dale V

    Dale V
    Surprise AZ

    I was actually trying to explain how lie changes the face angle, even when the club is square. If you have seen those magnet rods stuck to the face you will notice that if you lower your hands, the shaft drops and the face now points left. That’s how the adapter setting creates the draw bias, by making the lie more upright.
  18. Thomas Y

    Thomas Y
    Wenham, MA

    This has always sort of confused me. I had the notion that the open/closed face only had significance if one gripped the club while it was in the soled/grounded position but that if gripped while holding in the air and looking at a square face, it wouldn't change the face alignment? But if that is true, then how is the loft actually affected?
  19. Joseph M

    Joseph M
    Saint John, New Brunswick

    Decreasing loft is accomplished by opening the face . When the club is then soled the face remains open but the loft is unchanged so to decrease the loft the club needs to raised and manipulated for the face to be square, thus, resulting in the loft decrease.

    Increasing the loft is accomplished by closing the face. When the club is then soled the face remains closed but the loft is unchanged so to increase the loft the club needs to be raised and manipulated for the face to be square, thus, resulting in the loft increase.

    Unfortunately, manufacturers rarely explain the necessity of squaring the face to result in the desired change in loft.
  20. Joseph M

    Joseph M
    Saint John, New Brunswick

    Choosing higher loft actually closes the face thus increasing draw with the increase in loft achieved by then squaring the face. If the face is not squared then the closed face along with the increase in lie (upright) together combine to give increased draw. Closing the face is the most effect way to increase draw. Choosing lower loft actually opens the face thus with the decrease in loft achieved by then squaring the face. If the face is not squared then the open face along with a flatter lie together combine to increase fade. Opening the face is the effective way to increase fade.
  21. John B

    John B
    North Carolina

    While we’re on club adjustments, is upright universally the setting to promote a draw and a flatter setting a fade? Or is this somewhat dependent on the individual golfer. My last 2 rounds i have tended to draw the club more than usually while using a flatter lie setting.
  22. Joseph M

    Joseph M
    Saint John, New Brunswick

    Yes, an upright lie does tend to help creating a draw but closing the face has much higher success in creating a draw/draw bias club. A flatter lie will tend to help create a fade. In both cases other swing factors could offset these tendencies. To have an appreciable draw basis effect a 20 gram shift to the heel side is required, but, again face angle change is "king" in influencing shot shape..
  23. John B

    John B
    North Carolina

    Yet the Titleist adapter does not explicitly have a function for opening and closing the face, a la png. So if you want to close the face you have to also add loft?
  24. Chuck Zirkle

    Chuck Zirkle
    Mt Pleasant, SC via Rocky Top Tennessee

    Military
    Not necessary, if you read the chart above "correctly". Stay on the Standard lie (A1) , you have two draw options (A2,B2) and
    one fade option (B1). You will not be changing the loft. Going above the standard lie changes the lofts. -.75* below and +. 75* and +1.50* above.

    I have tinkered with the options to see what works best with my Driver, Fairways and Hybrids.
  25. John B

    John B
    North Carolina

    The draw options are to make the lie more upright. This does not really promote a draw for me. Currently have returned the setting to a standard position with .75* additional loft. This and altering a bit my swing path have helped promote a slight draw, which is what I was looking for with my driver. I have also upgraded from the TSR1 to the GT1 since I started this thread but not sure that matters.
  26. Dale V

    Dale V
    Surprise AZ

    Glad to hear you are getting it dialed in on the shot shape you desire. Shafts can make a difference too. Sometimes a very stiff shaft will limit the natural kick for a slower swinger and a lighter, more flexible shaft will allow the head to kick the ball with a bit more release. Always an option to try if that slice comes back later.

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